Ryan Pineda interviews Neil Patel to discuss growth hacks and how to scale your marketing.
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The reason I don’t keep track of that is a customer who gives you 500 million in ad spend to manage, percentage-wise, you make a lot less than someone who gives you 30, 40, 50 million to spend right? So the numbers vary across the board. More so we track revenue for our organization and growth.
Next year, I don’t know what’s going to happen with the economy. My guess is we won’t grow 20%, we’ll grow more than 10. My guess is we’ll be somewhere in that range. The return is still there. So companies won’t cut back too much because if you’re spending a dollar and it makes you 70 cents in profit, right, for every dollar you spend. So you’re making more than that in revenue, a portion of its profit, you’re not going to stop spending in a good market or a bad market.
Yes, but at these organizations, you have tons of CMOs because they have different divisions. When companies make like five, 10, or 20 billion a year in profit, not revenue. And this is billion with a B, you got tons of CMOs, you have tons of CFOs, it’s what division and all rolls up into maybe a global CMO or a global CFO. And then when you’re doing marketing, typically, the marketing is done division by division. Because these large corporations have so many different products and offerings, it’s one after another, and then you got to work your way up the ladder.
So we actually even surveyed 8,000 plus companies for 2023. Most people are spending more on digital. Traditional is going down. Television, radio, billboards, print. We’re seeing a decline there. The majority of them are cutting budgets there because it’s not direct ROI.
And it’s using Google suggest data. So Google starts pulling what are people typing in right now within that region that they weren’t typing in before that’s becoming popular. And then we just pull from that.
So I think organic social is going to become harder and harder. Reach is continually getting cramped. And I see people and influencers having no choice but to eventually start spending more on ads and starting up. The second thing that we’re seeing is there’s going to be a big influencer pay with companies paying influencers to be brand evangelists. And not in the way that most companies are doing it right now. People will be like hey, I’m going to go pay a Kardashian and have them post a photo. That’s not working that well compared to what it used to four or five years ago. But what is working is saying, I’m going to do a deal with a Kardashian, give them some money, have them be part of the company, give them a little bit of equity. And they’re going to promote the product consistently. And they’re also going to be part of the website and the landing page and the story’s going to make sense and the product’s going to be very related to their audience. And we’re seeing that being super effective.
And I’ve had tons of conversations with CAA, looking at a lot of the deals because they work with a lot of these influencers and they even have incubation there. And I’ve seen the revenue numbers for a lot of these businesses and a lot of big celebrities. Not with a million or even 10 million followers. I’m talking about like 50, a hundred million followers. You’ll be shocked on how many of them are launching products like supplements or protein, let’s say if the influencer’s buff or whatever. And you’ll be shocked on how little revenue and how little profit the companies are actually generating. A lot of it’s systems, processes, and operations where they’re breaking down.
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– We actually even surveyed
8,000 plus companies for 2023. Most people are spending more on digital. Traditional is going down. Television, radio, billboards, print. (gentle music) – Alright, I am with the savant
of marketing, Neil Patel. What's up man? – Hey, how are you? – Good. Dude so I was talking to you pre-show And I mean I've seen your stuff And I've had people tell me like, You're the guy who knows
everything about marketing, But I didn't know how
massive it really was. And you were like yeah, I
mean we manage, you know, Billions of dollars of ad spend a year. I'm like, what? It's crazy. – It's not that hard Because there's really large corporations That themselves will spend a hundred, 200 million or a half a billion And it adds up really quickly. – Yeah. So how did you even get to
this point of, you know, You've got this agency that's
managing billions of dollars Of ad spend for these massive
corporations and I was like, How did you even start making money? And you're like, well I
came from tech and you know, I've got cash flow And like I want to know
how did you get started? – So I am 37 right now. Started the first business when I was 16. First real one, which was a ad agency.
– Okay. – Spoke at a nighttime community college When I was in high school. I was trying to finish college
really early because I wanted To get into the workforce. And my first speech
was on how Google works And their algorithm. And someone in that class Worked at a power supply manufacturer. They provided power supplies to airplanes Or heart resuscitators. And they're like, We're looking for some sort of marketer That does what you're talking about. Can you meet my boss' boss? And I was like, sure. 16, he got me a contract
for 60 grand a year. So five grand a month. And I brought in roughly
25 million in revenue For that company through
SEO and paid advertising. – That's ridiculous. – And then the owner of that company, His son owned a ad agency. So then he hooked me up with Countrywide, Which I'm assuming you know well. But they're no longer, a
part of Bank of America now. Then Blue Cross and ING Direct. So in between all four of those deals, I was making 20 grand a month. His son was arbitraging it
because he had an ad agency. He was just charging more. And I was a little kid and I
was like cool, I can do this. And as I started getting into this I started landing bigger accounts.
Like I remember one of our
accounts was General Motors. And we were working on General Motors, Their budget at the time, I think it was somewhere
around three million a month In ad spend that we were managing. And I was just like, you know, If you spent, it was either three or five, I forgot the number, But either way there was a
wastage of either like two Or three million or
something large per month. I was like if you don't spend this, You'll actually generate the same return Or generate the same revenue, But you'll just be able to
save those millions of months. And I got canned from that contract. Because if I didn't spend
the money and I was a kid, I didn't realize this, The person wouldn't get the
budget for the next quarter. And when he brought that up to me I said, Well then just go allocate
it in a different department. But that department wouldn't
be his, he didn't like that. So I got canned from that contract. So then from there I
was like this is silly. Why would companies
want to spend more money Than they need to Just because they want
to maintain the budget. It's actually the wrong
business decision, right, For that corporation. So from there I built
an analytics software Called Crazy Egg, Which we still have that
breaks down the ROI, How you generate more revenue From the traffic you're getting, Which helps a lot of the Fortune 100.
And that's how I actually made Most of my money was software. And that got me into the
software realm because I'm like, Wait this is scalable. It does well, you don't have
to have as many employees. Winded down the agency,
focused more on software, Did a few more software plays after that. Still on the Crazy Egg one. And then funny enough, I got back into the ad
agency world five years ago Because most of the ad
agencies that I know, They have 50 to a hundred
plus thousand employees. They're really large, They're publicly traded
and everything is manual. I'm like these guys don't
use software to automate Most of the work? So that's why I got back into
it because I felt that I can Create another ad agency using software To make it efficient and
automated and have better margins, Provide better work. And the business model
has worked out so far. – Yeah, so right now, How many billions of dollars
are you guys managing right now In ad spend? – I don't know, I don't
keep track of that. – It's just a lot. – It's a lot. And the reason I don't
keep track of that is A customer who gives you 500
million in ad spend to manage, Percentage-wise, you make
a lot less than someone Who gives you 30, 40, 50
million to spend right? So the numbers vary across the board. More so we track revenue for
our organization and growth. – Right.
Are you able to share what
kind of revenues you guys do? – We're good sized. The ad agency does over nine figures. Well into the nine figures. I'll to show you growth this year would be A little bit more than 40%. So if there wasn't the economic downturn, We probably would've
been closer to 70% growth Year over year.
– Wow. And next year, I don't know what's going
to happen with the economy. My guess is we won't grow
20%, we'll grow more than 10. My guess is we'll be
somewhere in that range. – And that's just
because you see companies Not wanting to spend money on marketing. – As much, but the return is still there. So companies won't cut back too much Because if you're spending a dollar And it makes you 70
cents in profit, right, For every dollar you spend. So you're making more
than that in revenue, A portion of it's profit, You're not going to stop
spending in a good market Or a bad market.
– Why would you? – Yeah, you would lose profit. – Yeah. – So, and that is most of
the companies we deal with, They're generating profit. So we don't really see
too much of a slowdown. – So why would they spend
less than if, you know, You were able to help them
keep the same profits, Or the profits diminishing now
just for where things are at. – Most will not spend less. Sometimes you get CFOs
because their stock price
Goes so down to cut back. Or CFOs saying you got to cut back. So we've gotten emails from,
and I won't name the clients, But a few large Fortune
100 companies that say We got to stop all spend in marketing. Got this word from the CFO, stock is down, We're cutting all marketing spend. You're on pause for a
month or three months Until we tell you otherwise. Then a month goes by, then two. Towards the end of the first month, Usually second month, they're like hey, We noticing less revenue. And we're like, ah, the profit was there. Like yeah, we know. And then you get calls on with the CMOs And then you eventually get
to the CFOs and like sure, You can turn it back on. – And I mean how does this, I wonder how the CMO and
the CFO deal with that. Like just debating with each other. Like we can't turn it off. – Yes, but at these organizations
you have tons of CMOs Because they have different divisions. When companies make like five, 10, 20 billion a year in profit, not revenue. And this is billion with
a B, you got tons of CMOs, You have tons of CFOs, It's what division and all
rolls up into maybe a global CMO Or a global CFO. And then when you're doing marketing, Typically the marketing is
done division by division. Because these large corporations Have so many different
products and offerings,
It's one after another And then you got to work
your way up the ladder. – So that makes a lot of sense. So your prediction next year
is that they'll, you know, They're going to cut spending right now. They'll eventually
realize we need it again. – We don't see that much
of a cut in digital. We actually see it still grow. – Okay. – So we actually even surveyed 8,000 plus companies for 2023. Most people are spending more on digital. Traditional is going down. Television, radio, billboards, print. We're seeing a decline there. Majority of them are cutting budgets there Because it's not direct ROI. – And would your agency
manage all forms of marketing For a company or just digital? – No, we only do digital. We'll do traditional if it's digital, And I'm not using
technical terms on purpose, But like imagine someone
watching TV on Hulu, right? You can buy ads on Hulu and you can track What the ROI is there.
– Right. – That's connected TV, right? You can see did that IP
address go back to the website From the Hulu, that saw the
Hulu ad and then they convert. – That's crazy. So you know, I've studied a lot of Gary V And everything else in what
he does with Vayner Media. What's he doing different than you guys? – Yeah, Vayner Media does a amazing job Producing great content.
They're more of a
creative shop than we are. We're performance marketing. So like imagine spending
a dollar on Google, What do you make in return? Or you rank on Google
through SEO or you know, Paid Facebook ads that
are performance based Or email marketing, et cetera. Vayner Media will go create
like beautiful campaigns With let's say Budweiser. And they may run during the
Super Bowl or they may do some Really cool social media campaigns. We won't actually go and
create their creative. – So would you, You guys would probably
work in conjunction then? – Correct. – Okay, that makes sense. So you know, I mean
obviously you guys are doing The ad agency thing and killing it. You said software though was really How you built your wealth initially. And you owned some of those companies. – And we still do software.
– Okay. – Like we bought one earlier this year Called Answer the Public. It was a marketing software.
– Okay. – And it just tells you what new keywords People are searching for that are popular But no one knows about yet. So like we still do quite a
bit of software each year. – So Answer the Public tells
you what's trending that people Don't know is about to trend. – Bingo. – Okay. – And it's using Google suggest data.
So Google starts pulling what
are people typing in right now Within that region that they
weren't typing in before That's becoming popular. And then we just pull from that. – And what do you plan to do with that? – So when we bought it, it was monetized. It was a, it wasn't a big company. We bought it for 8.6. I believe it was six mil up front, 2.6 in payments over six quarters, Which is what our deal was. I think we have three more quarters That we have to make payments on. And when we bought that
business, it was only doing, Call it a a hundred a
month in EBITDA, maybe 120, 130 in revenue a month. – A hundred, you're
talking a hundred thousand? – Yeah.
– Yep, okay. – And we felt it was under monetized. We probably will get
that business to three, 400 a month in EBITDA. So call it four million a year If you want to average it out in EBITDA. But that wasn't the main
reason we bought it. We didn't really care too
much about the revenue Or the EBITDA from the software. We have other marketing software solutions And they drive a lot of agency leads. So when we were looking at the companies That use AnswerThePublic, A lot of them are large corporations, And closing some of those deals Would make us way more
than the software would. – Right, it's a lead magnet.
It's marketing for you. – Bingo. So it has two ends, right? It was. – It's paid marketing, you
don't even have to pay for it. You get paid to market
to them and get deals. – Yeah so if you look at the math, Let's say we spent 8.6 in total right? After all the payments. With the 8.6, Once we get it to four in EBITDA, It's a little bit more than a
two year payback period right? The multiple on that is worth
much more when we fold it into Our company than the multiple on, That they were on their end right. We paid roughly 8X. And then when you think about
the leads that we generate Will generate much more revenue
in EBITDA from the leads Of companies using the software. Because of the six,
700,000 monthly uniques That they're getting right now. Not a good chunk, a small
chunk, but it's enough in volume Are large corporations
like the Nikes of the world And stuff where we don't have contracts That we'd love contracts. So it's a great foot in the door. – Right. No, that makes a lot of sense. So speaking of rolling up, This is something that I've
now become much more aware of For why certain people are
now trying to do roll ups And all that stuff. And you know I don't come
from the tech space and the, The VC space and so I'm
just a gritty entrepreneur
Who's learning about this later on. And you know, you see
these companies roll up Into each other and they just
get this massive multiple now. So what's your strategy there? Because you're saying well
we would roll them up. Are you guys planning to go public, exit? Like what's the deal? – No, when the market was good, A few people hit us up to go public. We didn't want to go public. We've talked to the
banks like the Goldmans And stuff like that,
what it would be like. And it seems miserable. I've had a few friends Who have taken their companies public. We don't want to do that. We've looked at also
selling to private equity. We haven't shopped it, But people have hit us up
to try to buy the company. And we've gotten quite a few
offers over the last two years. Never chose to do it. The business is like a baby. Alright, you have two kids.
– Yep. – And I don't want to give my kids away. You know, I was in Brazil
meeting with another entrepreneur And he's done well. He had all the, He had one of the biggest
companies in Brazil that would Teach people English. And I think in Florida
he owned a soccer team. And then he recently sold that
and he's like just imagine it Like your daughter's getting married And you're giving her away. I'm like, well I don't
want to give away my kids.
So every time people hit us up saying hey, We want to buy you, I
usually just ignore them. Someone on my team usually talks to them, But I don't really ever care to sell. – So when you're talking about
a potential roll up though, If it ever did happen, I mean you'd be rolling in the software And all these things
into the same thing or? – Some of the companies are combined. Some of them are not. We don't, so private equity
typically does roll ups From multiple arbitrage, Or synergistic play in which
one plus one equals two? I mean three not two.
– Yep. So most people are like
one plus one equals two. Private equity will be like, We can make one plus one equal three. And I'll give you an example of this. – The one you just bought would do that. – Yes, but their model's
a little bit different. Let's say I own, My ad agency is called NP Digital, After me Neil Patel Digital. And let's say Gary Vaynerchuk
owned Vayner Media. And let's say we're both selling, okay, This is hypothetical. Our private equity will be like, wait, Vayner Media doesn't have
much overlap with NP Digital, But their customers use
Vayner Media services, But they pay a different
agency to do creative work. And the companies that
that use Vayner Media Also need Google ads and other stuff. But Vayner Media isn't
providing some of that stuff, Or SEO or whatever it may be.
So private equity will be like, We should buy both
companies and cross sell. And then your customers get stickier Because they're more reliant on you. So churn typically goes down.
– Yep. – So the customers are worth more And you're generating way more revenue From your customer base, But you're buying them
on separate multiples. Let's just say the math
is 15 to 20 times EBITDA. That's typically what the
companies are trading for In the agency world if you're at scale. And when you're getting
15 to 20 times EBITDA, Assuming you have good
growth, you combine them, You're not doubling up. You know, the EBITDA when
you add them up together Is not one plus one equals two. With all the cross sells, You're getting close to
one plus one equals three. And because of even larger scale, It's easier to go public
where the multiples in theory Should be higher. Not always, but in theory
they should be higher. – No, that makes sense. I've been unknowingly doing that At obviously a way smaller scale. You know I started out with Our real estate investing education And then everybody was asking
hey, how do we get taxed? And so I started a tax
company called True Books And so many of our students
use our tax company. – That's cool. – Tax is super sticky.
– Yes. – And so, you know, they're with me there.
And then we started another
education company called Wealthy Creator, teaching
them how to do social media. Because every entrepreneur
right now needs social media. And so it's like this
intertwined web of, you know, Different ways to make
customers stickier and upsells And cross sells. Like it happens all the time. You know, we'll get an investor At my syndication with Pineda Capital, And you know, they need
tax, they need this. And so it's just like this
web of things happening. – Well the beautiful part
of what you're doing is You have hard assets, real estate. – Yeah. – And the amount of leverage you can get Going to the banks is amazing. – Yep. – That's what's cool about your industry. Our industry, you know, when
you want to start doing roll ups And you have cash flow,
we go to the banks, We work with an amazing bank called CIBC. They're a Canadian bank. They're also in the US as well. I think they're publicly traded
on the Canadian exchange. Either way, whether you
go through a JP Morgan Or CIBC or whoever, you're
just shopping rates. Whoever's giving you the best rates, You get leverage and then you can use that To go buy more companies. So you don't actually have to come up With cash out of pocket once
you get to a big enough scale. But with real estate you
can do that much quicker Owning less real estate
because of the leverage That people are willing to give.
– Yeah, what's the leverage look like At company acquisitions? Like how did Elon get his
leverage to buy Twitter? – He probably put a lot of cash down. My guess is if Twitter was
doing two million in EBITDA, I'm making it up. I don't know what EBITDA
Twitter was doing, But let's say if they're at two million, Maybe he'll get six, 7X max. It starts becoming higher interest rates. You'll start having to pay like
11, 12, 13% interest rates. So to give you an idea with
like tech companies like mine, We can typically get 3X
EBITDA at silver plus, Maybe 3%, three and change. So let's say if the fed rate
is 4% and we're at three, We're paying 7% interest. But when the market was good And the fed rate was at
let's say a point or zero, And we're at three, you're
only talking about three, 4%. So when you do an
acquisition for $10 million, You're only paying at 4%,
$400,000 a year in interest only. – Yeah it's nothing. Free money. – You have to make very little To almost no principal payments And you can scale up and then
you're adding more EBITDA, Which allows you to borrow more. And of course the math's not hard right. Just do the math. I bought that company for
less than 10 million bucks. Even if it was that 10 at 7%, 700. I'm growing the EBITDA even
with its existing EBITDA, It pays for the loan plus more. But we were able to grow the EBITDA.
So it's cash flowing more. It pays on the loan by itself. We use none of our own money. – Yeah, that's crazy. It's just like real estate. We try to do things without
using any of our own money. But like business it's way, In my mind it's way easier
to force the appreciation. Would you agree? – It is, tut it's much
harder in business to. – To build the teams and the
systems, to actually do it. – Yes, it's more risky and there's more, You lose money than you gain money. And I see a lot of people making mistakes. – Yeah real estate's much safer. – It's safer. I don't think real estate's easy at all, Which is why I used to do
a lot more real estate. I don't do as much now. And I've done things from
like apartment complexes That are a few hundred units. I think real estate is a lot of hard work. – Yeah it is. – And everyone thinks like oh, You just put in some money and you invest, Then you're good to go. It's easier to give people like you money And let you deal with
the crap, no offense. And to invest in a fund like yours Or whoever may have a fund And then not have to
deal with the renters. – Yeah. No, I've actually said that
as my career has developed, You know, I made my first
millions flipping houses
And doing real estate and
then eventually, you know, I started getting into the digital space And the social media space. I'm like, dang dude, These digital products
have way less overhead, Way less risk, way more scalable. You know, it's sales and
marketing essentially. And I'm like, I can do
this over and over again. And so like I started
going down that path, But I've always stayed with real estate Because it's my core competency
and I know how to do it. And you know, as I've gotten
more and more wealthy people, You know, and I see how
they make money, I'm like, Yeah you guys shouldn't
even mess with real estate. Like you guys, like you said, You should just give it
to me or whoever else And like let us deal with it. Because the way you make
money is like far easier. And not easier or simpler, But like just it's just a
better way of making money, Like active income. – Yes and a lot of them got
started a long time ago, So their business has
scaled and it's just like, Do you really want to run
this apartment complex For this return? It's like, it's easier to
just park money with you Or whoever else.
– Yeah. No, I agree. So what are you seeing, you
know, I guess on the media side, Like, I mean you've been
doing ads for a long time. You know, you're on social media, You have a podcast too and
you're doing all these things. What do you see happening
with social media As the years go on?
– So I think organic social Is going to become harder and harder. Reach is continually getting cramped. And I see people and
influencers having no choice But to eventually start
spending more on ads And starting up. The second thing that we're seeing
is there's going to be a big Influencer pay with
companies paying influencers To be brand evangelists. And not in the way that most companies Are doing it right now. People will be like hey, I'm going to go pay a Kardashian
and have them post a photo. That's not working that well
compared to what it used to Four or five years ago. But what is working is saying, I'm going to do a deal with a
Kardashian, give them some money, Have them be part of the company, Give them a little bit of equity. And they're going to promote
the product consistently. And they're also going
to be part of the website And the landing page and the
story's going to make sense And the product's going to be
very related to their audience. And we're seeing that
being super effective. – I mean t's like what Nike's been doing Forever with athletes.
– Exactly. And online you saw it
where people would just go For the quick hits being like, Oh let me just pay Kim
Kardashian for a post Like Skinny Fit Tea back in the day. They'd make the money and and
over time they're like wait, This isn't working as well. – Yeah, you needed to give Kim equity So she'd have skin in the
game to actually do it.
– Yes, and she needs to actually
be in love with the product And continually wanting
to drink it or use it And post about it and be on the website And to be part of her brand as well. – I mean, look at before
all this drama with Kanye, But look at what him
and Adidas did together. – Yeah, it's amazing. And that's what I mean
in which the celebrity Has to be part of the company. – Exactly. No, that makes complete sense. And I've been saying that
for a while as I've watched The influencers who actually
have started to build Businesses or partner with businesses. You know I was seeing the thing of like Rihanna became a billionaire. – Yeah with Fenty. – With Fenty, right. You saw Kylie Jenner do it right. The youngest ever. You know, you see Mr. Beast
now creating his own products And different things. The Rock and Connor McGregor
like going into alcohol. And you know, then selling
for nine figures and I'm like, That's the way. You build influence
and then you like build A really good company that's
related to what you actually, To your point are passionate about. – But I don't think it
works as well anymore. Just so many Rocks and
Rihannas are doing it Where every celebrity has
their own product and brand. And what we're seeing seeing the gap in, Because we work with some of these brands, But I also know a lot of the investors
In some of these companies as well. – Okay. – And what you'll find is
a lot of times they break On the operations and systems end, right? You can, for example, Kylie Jenner can use her brand
and just blow up any product That is related to our audience. E.x. Kylie Cosmetics. Did amazing job, but to
continually build amazing products In the beauty space is a lot of hard work. I'm not saying she's not doing a good job, But it's not that simple from
taking a company from zero To being worth a billion. And there's some posts
online about the sales. So you can see the sales numbers. It's not that easy to
generate a few hundred million And then be like alright, Now we're going to scale to a
billion, two billion in sales. It's a lot of work, a lot of systems, A lot of processes that I
don't think a lot of these Influencers have figured out yet. But when you combine them
with the large corporations Like I'm talking about, I think Fenty did a good job
because Fenty's a partnership With LVMH or one of those brands. It allows you to scale
and grow much faster Because they already have the systems And processes in place. – Right. Yeah, that makes sense
because to your point, Basically any influencer
could start a business And launch it, like fast. But then after that it becomes
back to traditional business Of like how well are you at R and D
And operations and scaling. Because you got the marketing piece down. – Yeah. – But the other side is, is
going to be the bottleneck. – And I've had tons of
conversations with CAA, Looking at a lot of the deals Because they work with a
lot of these influencers And they even have incubation there. And I've seen the revenue numbers For a lot of these businesses
and a lot of big celebrities. Not with a million or
even 10 million followers. I'm talking about like 50,
a hundred million followers. You'll be shocked on how many
of them are launching products Like supplements or protein, Let's say if the influencer's
buff or whatever. And you'll be shocked
on how little revenue And how little profit the
companies are actually generating. A lot of it's systems, processes, And operations where
they're breaking down. – Right. But I think too, like I
guess also I look at it From the perspective of like, I know you're like thinking super large And massive and then, You know, maybe these guys with, Take a guy like me. Across the platforms, I have like almost Two million followers now
and I'm like yeah, you know, If I could go do 50 million in revenue And go net 15 million bucks, A million bucks a month,
whatever, like I'm chilling. That's a great product. – They're not even doing that. I'm looking at a lot of the CAA deals
And some of them are
struggling to even make A million dollars a year in profit. – Okay, well yeah then. – And then they have, Call it followings that are 20, 30, 40 times larger than yours
and they can't get to even 20, 30 million in revenue. – So their problem was they just partnered With the wrong company. Do you think? – No, it's a lot of the
influencers are creating Their own companies
and their own products. Kind of like Kylie did, Kylie Jenner, Versus Rihanna partnering with LVMH. – Yeah. – And it's not the right management team. – Well that's what I'm saying. They just picked the wrong. – Exactly. – The wrong team, company, whatever. – Or even product.
– Yeah. – And a great example of this is, I forgot that the lady's
name, she's super popular. She has like vodka infused whipped cream Or something like that. I forgot what her name is. And she has a ton of followers. I'm pretty sure between all the platforms, Over a hundred million followers. But when you look at the
revenue for that business, You're not even talking about $10 million. The problem is is the
influencer want to do something Like vodka infused whipped cream. Something so specific.
– There's no product marketplace. – Yeah, and they're like oh,
riches are in the niches. No it's not. You need to go after a big TAM right, Total addressable market to do well. – Yeah. And that's why whiskey works. It's huge. – Huge market. – Yeah. – But if every celebrity is
going to create a whiskey product And you continually
have the Rock and Connor And George Clooney And another hundred
celebrities doing this. – Yeah, you got to be unique
but also have a big TAM. – Correct.
